Gold Devaluation?

[wolfeyedangel]

May I add a question: Where is decreased earning potential balanced by decreased inflation, rather than over compensating for decreased inflation? (That is if people are making an average of 10k/day here and the average is dropped to 3k/day... that's a decrease of slightly over 1/3 earned. If prices only drop by HALF or even exactly 1/3, things are effectively more expensive not less relative to earning potential.)

~Wolf

[randomname]

I hardly ever sell creatures, except for a QS once in a way when I feel like buying something for myself or when I have extra shards, to buy some Doni and sell for cheaper than what is offered by most members because I am not a big fan of highly priced Donis. I am more into gifting. So mining is about the only other source of income for me. 99% of the gold I earn from mining and sometimes my QS goes into buying creatures for breeding and/or gifting. I am in the process of collecting 500k to keep aside for Christmas gifts if Tristan gives us the gift option back. I need to mine quite a bit for that, apart from being involved in breeding/ catching for some other work I am involved in (all related to gifting). So I rely a lot on mining (mass clicking adults). So mass clicking adults to earn gold to do all this makes me a player who is not dedicated to MS is it?

I agree with you, Dil--you're very dedicated to the game. When I agreed with the poster above, it was really just to agree that I think clicking on adults is a flaw.

And DevilCrest--I've explained in a lot of detail why I think it's a flaw. Just read my earlier posts. BUT I think it's a flaw that's here to stay. I don't advocate doing away with it--it's been part of the game for a year and a half, and so I think it's part of the culture of the place. Nothing's perfect, everything's flawed (and everyone, including me). I can live with it, I've decided not to let it bother me anymore.

[wolfeyedangel]

Could I get some elaboration, Randomname? I've read most of your previous posts (I might have missed one) but none of them seem to go into more than very vague statements of more clicks = more gold = bad, rather than an attempt to balance gold available vs. inflation. Since perceived value is not directly influenced by the amount of actual gold in the system how would not getting gold from adults (which you have spoken in support of, since if it's a flaw it needs to be corrected) correct the RATIO rather than the absolute values?

~Wolf

[BluMajica]

*SNIP*

I think that this thread is showing us that some people enjoy mining, and do not want that taken away - others are seeing this as an unfair advantage because they are able to amass a large pile of gold without (much) effort.
I do not see why it is a problem. So perhaps someone here can answer these questions I have - without the seeming jealousness of "they have more gold than I do because of it" coming in to it. Not saying that anyone is or has been saying but that does seem to be a lot of the objections to it are geared more towards the - they can afford to spend more on new pets/Donis etc than I can or than newbies can.

1. Why is it a bad thing for someone to "Mine" adult creatures if they want more gold and are willing to put in the time and effort involved?
2. Why do you think it takes clicks away from eggs/hatchlings?
3. Is it all about getting the latest ASAP? If not why? If so why?

If i can get some sensible answers to these Id be happy. because I am not seeing it as a problem (PERSONALLY) If Mazzi or GC want to mine 80k in a day - and I have seen BOTH in the click threads so I doubt that they are not clicking eggs/hatchlings - then why should we say they cannot do that?
Yes I know computers/internet is a problem - but If you are persistent it is possible, it just takes more time. I do know as I have both a fast computer at home and a shitty one at uni, same goes for the net - i can open 400 tabs at home Im lucky to do 50 without crashes at uni - but it is possible.

edit: one other thought - I think we can all assume that the click threads only have a certain amount of people posting at any one time. I can within about 10 mins of posting - click everything in there and have nothing new to click - So I do go elsewhere, DAN/Img free mines and come back 1/2 hours later have a another round of clicks and go again. so while I do mine - I am not neglecting the eggs/hatchlings people want grown...I also am getting a good idea as to who the serial NON clickers are.. but I still click them.. even though I think I will be stopping soon...that is something I think is unfair...

I still want an answer from you who think this is a bad idea - I've not had one response to these questions - And yes I have read the whole post - I check it regularly as it is something I am interested in (esp seeing as it is going to be my chosen career field)

so please - give me some reasoning behind your "its a flaw" "its a cheat" remarks. I honestly want some feedback.

ty

May I add a question: Where is decreased earning potential balanced by decreased inflation, rather than over compensating for decreased inflation? (That is if people are making an average of 10k/day here and the average is dropped to 3k/day... that's a decrease of slightly over 1/3 earned. If prices only drop by HALF or even exactly 1/3, things are effectively more expensive not less relative to earning potential.)

~Wolf

true, things will still same the same prices in relativity to earning capacity. so you will still have the price difference and possible complaints that are here now.

[DevilCrest]

And DevilCrest--I've explained in a lot of detail why I think it's a flaw. Just read my earlier posts. BUT I think it's a flaw that's here to stay. I don't advocate doing away with it--it's been part of the game for a year and a half, and so I think it's part of the culture of the place. Nothing's perfect, everything's flawed (and everyone, including me). I can live with it, I've decided not to let it bother me anymore.

Truly, excuse my ignorance, but I'd greatly appreciate it if you could just reiterate the reason why for me just this once or even go back and quote it for me. I've skimmed through most of it and couldn't find any reason beyond what Wolf said here:

Could I get some elaboration, Randomname? I've read most of your previous posts (I might have missed one) but none of them seem to go into more than very vague statements of more clicks = more gold = bad, rather than an attempt to balance gold available vs. inflation. Since perceived value is not directly influenced by the amount of actual gold in the system how would not getting gold from adults (which you have spoken in support of, since if it's a flaw it needs to be corrected) correct the RATIO rather than the absolute values?

~Wolf

Again, I'm trying to understand why you feel the way you do...in detail beyond what has been summarized in Wolf's post above. If I could have figured out the reason in a less muddled reason, then I wouldn't be asking for clarification.

[randomname]

Could I get some elaboration, Randomname? I've read most of your previous posts (I might have missed one) but none of them seem to go into more than very vague statements of more clicks = more gold = bad, rather than an attempt to balance gold available vs. inflation. Since perceived value is not directly influenced by the amount of actual gold in the system how would not getting gold from adults (which you have spoken in support of, since if it's a flaw it needs to be corrected) correct the RATIO rather than the absolute values?

~Wolf

Balance, inflation, ratios--no idea. I have no idea what you're asking or what you mean in the post before the one I've quoted. Sorry. It's a game with fake pixel gold and most of that stuff barely applies anyway--because it's fake pixel gold.

I thought that I had been very specific earlier--it's about the rate of production of gold. Gold mining adults makes gold exponentially faster than any other method other than breeding first generations of gift-born creatures like elks and blue crystalwings, or selling quest-borns. The prices of donation pets stayed pretty stable--10k per shard for new ones at the high end for more than six months (November to May, at least--I know because I sold them all the time). There's always been gold mining in keeps--but the image-free gold mines let someone with the right computer make 40K in an hour or two. The explosion of prices started with a super popular creature--the bone dragons--but I don't think it's a coincidence that the explosion also coincides with the growth of image-free gold mines. The gap between those with a lot and those with a little is greater than it's ever been. If clicking adults didn't produce gold, then folks would have to get gold in other ways, ways that makes the game grow by producing creatures and helping them grow. I guess it's like empty calories--junk food--gold from clicking eggs and hatchlings grows creatures, gold from clicking adults does nothing but allow some to buy up all the donis at super high prices to sell 6 months from now so that those with less gold find themselves shut out. And of course there's the added factor that in today's economy, perhaps folks are buying fewer donis to sell.

But like I said--it's here to stay. I'm not sure that you can change something that fundamental to the site's culture when it's been in place from the start. I'd rather see the clicking of eggs and hatchlings yield two gold or something. Or do nothing at all--leave it as is.

If gold mining helps someone like Enchanteddil do all the good that she does, then it can't really be all bad. It's more good than bad, so it's here to stay, and I'm o.k. with that.

[BluMajica]

*SNIPITY*

The prices of donation pets stayed pretty stable--10k per shard for new ones at the high end for more than six months (November to May, at least--I know because I sold them all the time). There's always been gold mining in keeps--but the image-free gold mines let someone with the right computer make 40K in an hour or two. The explosion of prices started with a super popular creature--the bone dragons--but I don't think it's a coincidence that the explosion also coincides with the growth of image-free gold mines. The gap between those with a lot and those with a little is greater than it's ever been. If clicking adults didn't produce gold, then folks would have to get gold in other ways, ways that makes the game grow by producing creatures and helping them grow. I guess it's like empty calories--junk food--gold from clicking eggs and hatchlings grows creatures, gold from clicking adults does nothing but allow some to buy up all the donis at super high prices to sell 6 months from now so that those with less gold find themselves shut out. And of course there's the added factor that in today's economy, perhaps folks are buying fewer donis to sell.

*SNIPITY*

people had a lot of money before the Bone dragon explosion - but personally I think it was mainly due to the fact its was another Dragon DP that made people a little crazy and so when A is offering so much so B offers more in higher hopes of getting one faster, so C then goes higher still...etc.

I think the IMG free mines came after the bone dragon explosion, but I wasn't aware of them until about 6 weeks ago which was a bit after the bonies...

and as I've mentioned - even with clicking the DAN and the three click threads I can click pretty much all eggs/hatchlings that are around before delving into others keeps - which some do not like.

although you still seem to be telling me that breeding/selling is the game - when collecting is more so for me...or giving out little things to make others feel good, in which case I have to mine (esp since ive got a few people I want to buy christmas pressies for) to get the gold I want, I do not have much luck with selling stream things, and 90% of the LTB threads in the MD have to do with doni's...which i can't afford to buy for gold in an online system at this time

[wolfeyedangel]

You're not answering the question, Randomname, or at least not as far as I can tell. I'll see if I can explain better. It still seems to devolve to MOER GOLD IS BAD RAWRS!!!!!! Which I don't think is what you mean

Economically speaking it doesn't matter if people make 100 whatever/day to 1000 whatever cost of what they want to buy. Or 1000 whatever/day to 10000 whatever cost of what they want to buy,.

They have to save 10 days of whatever to get what they want.

We have Thingy A which currently costs 100,000 whatevers.
Average user (not individuals since that gets eye-crossingly crazy and if calibrate to lowest user who doesn't give a flying flip about the site and makes no whatevers per day you might as well not have the whatevers that serve as currency) makes 10,000 whatevers per day. That's 10 days per Thingy A.

Ok. Let's say that on magistream 3,000 whatevers is 'average without clicking adults'.
Let us also, for the sake of mathematical comparrison assume that with adult clickings that 10,000 per day is player average some click way more, some way less. But that's the average which is the best we can base things off of math wise.

Let's suppose Rare Thingy A. Which is 100,000 whatevers right now.
Average earning is 10,000/day. so 10 days of earning gives you Thingy A give or take a day or so finding someone selling Thingy A.

Now let's say Adult clicking is taken out of the equation.
This drops us from 10,000 whatevers to 3,000 whatevers.
Thingy A still costs 100,000 whatevers.
Because cost correction is never immediate. Thingy A equivalent is 100,000 for 2-4 months after Adult clicking is revoked.

That means 2-4 months where the 3,000 whatever earners (which is most of the site since methods of getting 10,000 average have been shot in the foot. ) have to scramble desperately and in 30 days only earn 90k.... and might get 1 of Thingy A equivalent.

Correction period is over and Thingy A settles to 50,000 whatevers to the 3,000 whatevers/day that's almost 20 days to get all the whatevers where it was 10 days previously. Now if the price of Thingy A settles to 30,000 whatevers it's still 10 days to earn the whatevers for Thingy A and nothing, proportionally has changed. But since more people were origionally earning 3,000 whatevers per day and the supply ratio hasn't changed it settles to 40,000 whatevers you get a slightly higher number of days effort required to get Thingy A.

How does nixing adult clicking avoid this scinario?

~Wolf

[randomname]

What scenario is that, Wolf? Seriously, I can't make heads nor tales of your post. I've got no idea of what you're trying to say or ask me.

Are you saying the price correction that would have to take place from making such a drastic change would wreck the site or something? Well, I've said more than once that it's probably too late to change things, didn't I? I don't think there's any going back--the situation is what it is. I don't think that makes what I wrote invalid. You don't actually deal with what I wrote at all, so I'm kind of scratching my head and feeling confused.

And Mordeth--play how you like, why does my opinion mean so much to you? If you disagree with me, then just shrug and move on and do what you do.

[ellysketchit]

...average user makes 10k per day?

There's where we're going off, and this is what we need to nail down with a poll, perhaps. What *does* the average user make? Because I highly doubt it's 10,000 gold.