Pit Bulls

[TNHawke]

1.) Do you own a pit bull or a pit bull-type of dog?
No, but I have considered it. I love the personality, but I dislike the shape of the head. If I ever do, it will be a mix.

2.) If yes, then did you train them from a puppy?
N/A but I tried my border collie/ German shepherd from a puppy, and my new little schnauzer/ terrier is at least a year old and I started training him as soon as he came home. He's definitely got the difficulty of an older, previously neglected, possibly abused terrier.

3.) How do you feel about certain breeds being banned?
I think it's dumb. It doesn't solve anything, except I suppose to make law enforcement's job easier. If there is a dog fighting problem in the area, and Joe Schmoe has a breed known to be used in fights, then just book him for that, no need to prove that he WAS fighting.

4.) Do you think pit bulls are dangerous breeds?
They CAN be. The way they are physically built, they are strong, sturdy dogs with a quick and hard bite when they choose to use it. At the grooming salon where I work, we have two dogs that we don't ever use the dryer on their head. One is a boxer and it's because he's SUPER prone to ear infections so we want to reduce the risk of getting water in his ears. The other is Bubbles, a shy pit. She LOVES the bath, but HATES the dryer. Apparently, she used to be so bad that we would just towel her off and call it good. However, it was Buddy, another pit (very young, I think he might be a year old now, and this happened a couple months ago) who snapped at the dryer nozzle and tore it in half. Just bite, gone. There was no chewing or ripping or fighting, just chomp and me blinking in surprise and then replacing the nozzle. Definitely gave me a whole new respect for the bite capabilities of a pitty!

5.) Why do you think someone might disagree with you?
Of course. We're all individuals with our own experiences and biases and opinions. I will say that I used to be anti-pit, and my view has changed over the years.

6.) Have you ever been attacked by a dog or know someone who has?
yes and yes. When I was in 6th grade, there was a yellow lab who would come rushing out of her back yard and bark and growl and snarl ferociously at me every day on my walk home from school. It got to the point where I would walk out in the street to go by their house, because I understood that this was the dog's territory and I was tresspassing, regardless of what city plans said. But then she came out into the street and was barring my way and getting WAY too close for comfort, barking and snapping. Mind you, I was 11, this dog probably weighed as much as I did and her mouth was between my waist and chest. In self defense, I kicked her... in the side of the head, yelling "NO!" and "GO HOME!" That shocked the hell out of her and she meekly went back to her yard. I didn't see her at all for a couple of months, and the next time I did, she was all tongue and tail wags. I have no idea if the owner saw what happened, or if she got training during that time, or if possibly it was even a different yellow lab, I just know that I started looking forward to seeing her.
I've had a number of altercations at work, dogs who challenge authority or just don't want to be bathed or whatever. I've been bitten by lots of small dogs, yorkies, shit tzus, corgis, schnauzers, chihuahuas, but also by bigger dogs, labs, newfoundland, German Shepherd...
The scariest attack though - my mom would walk our old husky around the neighborhood, and she got sick and tired of dogs coming after them and started carrying mace. One day, a German shepherd jumped through a second story window, landed in the yard totally unfazed and rushed across the street in obviously aggressive behavior. Mom caught him right across the muzzle with a line of mace, right between nose and eyes. That stopped him dead and he cowered meekly back to his porch where he stayed. She also had to use the mace on a cocker spaniel once. And a different cocker spaniel was unleashed and unfenced in the yard with his owners, Mom was across the street and the cocker dashed across the street, ignoring the calls by his family to come back, and was barking and snarling and went to attack Jerry (the husky). Jerry bit the back of his neck, picked him up, gave him a good shake and tossed him. By then the owners arrived and picked up their dog who needed stitches and accused Mom of having a vicious dog. They even got animal control involved, they wanted Mom to pay their vet bill and have Jerry euthanized. Animal control gave them a ticket for an unleashed and aggressive dog instead.
At work, there have been a couple of dogs who have needed a 'doggy down', which when you roll them, put one hand on their neck, one on their hip, and stare down until they stop struggling and submit. Sometimes it can take 15 minutes to get through that WE are alpha, not them. One that I had to struggle with was a lab/ pit mix who's attitude was more like a little kid screaming at the babysitter "You aren't the boss of me!" Another is a shepherd something and possibly some pit. He's brindle colored and has a bit wider muzzle than a GSD. He's had a rough start in life and is in foster care, but he goes through days where he has an attitude of "Don't you tell me what to do! I'll tell YOU what to do!" With him, we have to tie him to the wall (like we do for big dog grooming), muzzle him, and THEN doggy down. It's scary. I don't like altercations with Rex, but we absolutely can NOT allow him to 'win'. He's already failed in three adoptive homes, and it's really tragic.
I've had cats mauled by a border collie and a lab (different occasions), and one killed by cattle dogs. I had some weird terrier mix maul my pet goose. My own border collie/ gsd mix mauled and killed my pigeons (he was a puppy, but OOOO I was mad!)

7.) Anything else?
It seems like every ten or fifteen years a different breed is the evil one. I remember in the 80s it was dobermans who needed to be banned and were vicious and evil. Now, I haven't met too many dobermans, but only one was a barker at people who passed by, and he barked from the middle of his yard, not the fence. And if his owner was out, he'd bark a few times and as soon as she greeted us kids, he was all licks and wiggles. Every other doberman I have ever met has been all licks and wiggles and goofiness.
Rotweilers were on the bad dog list. They, like pitbulls, are big, strong, dogs with a strong jaw. And just like pitties and dobermans, most are sweet creatures who would rather lick a kitten than bite any one. But they do need training.
Pretty sure German Shepherds were on the list. Ooooo, scary police dogs!
And now it's pit bulls who are evil.

I will say that my very first experience with a pit bull was TERRIFYING. I was little, somewhere between 5 and 7 I think. Mom and I were coming out of a grocery store and had just crossed the main drive into the parking lot to get to the car. Two cars were passing in the drive, and - I honestly thought it was a tiger, I'd never seen a brindle dog before - jumped out the window of a moving car to try to attack the lady in the other. Fortunately, her window was up. This pit bull was up on its back legs, clawing and biting at the window, trying with everything it was worth to get at this lady in her own car. There was a second dog in the car, barking frantically and dancing around, he wanted in on the action. Mom hussled me into the car, made sure the windows were up and locked the doors. And that was when I learned what a pit bull was.
My second experience was when Mom and I were sitting in front of a different grocery store in another state giving away kittens. A guy was talking to me. I was 9 I think... the story is creepier looking back, thinking about that age difference. He was telling me about his dogs, pitties, who were sweet, loving, but great guard dogs, but one time one of his girls had been told to guard the house and then wouldn't let him back into his own home.
Then my third, when I was 10 or 11, a schoolmate had gotten a beautiful brindle pitbull puppy. She had a perfect 5 point star on her head and that was her name, Star. His family did everything right with her. She was spayed, vaccinated, trained and thoroughly socialized. Then, about a year old, she suddenly became aggressive. It escalated quickly, within a week is what I remember as a kid, although it was probably longer from earliest signs. It ended when she attacked family members and they had to call animal control out, who used a trank gun on her and then while she was out from that, she was euthanized. She was a textbook case of the scary, dangerous pit bull, and for years after that, I was very much in the "all pits should be banned and euthanized" group.
Since then, other than unruley puppies, one who's owner I wanted to slap, I have yet to meet a pitty I didn't like, and some that I have liked very much.

[Tekla]

1.) Do you own a pit bull or a pit bull-type of dog?
I do not and probably never will. I prefer large, calm dogs.

2.) If yes, then did you train them from a puppy?
N/A

3.) How do you feel about certain breeds being banned?
I think it's stupid, personally. No dog breed or breeds is/are so much more dangerous than others that it deserves to be banned.

I think people should learn how to properly take care of and train their pet(s) instead.

And maybe people should also really look into what they want and what they're trying to get. Pit bulls aren't the right dog for everyone, and that goes for every breed.

4.) Do you think pit bulls are dangerous breeds?
Not inherently. Like everything, environment and upbringing play a large part in the overall disposition of the pet.

An animal that is abused or untrained is probably more likely to bite than a trained and unabused counterpart.

5.) Why do you think someone might disagree with you?
Stereotyping. The stereotype that pit bulls (and other banned breeds) are dangerous is so pervasive in this society.

6.) Have you ever been attacked by a dog or know someone who has?
I have not ever been really attacked, but over the summer I was menaced by multiple dogs walking to the library, to the point where I started carrying a fairly hefty stick along with me. All these dogs were mixes, near as I could tell, and were clearly untrained - and uncontained.

In general, I have had significantly more negative experiences with small dogs - especially chihuahuas and other "toy" dogs - than I have ever had with larger breeds. I hate dogs that bark and yap all the time and who seem to have a constant desire to chase me and attempt to bite my ankles. I have only ever had these experiences with small dogs, too, and it's gotten to the point where I would no longer ever consider owning a dog whose head did not at least reach the height of my knee.

7.) Anything else?

It bothers me when people blame an animal for doing what it does naturally, or blame an animal for something that was the person's fault.

I have never had, or heard of, very many experiences where a non-rabid dog bites or attacks out of the blue. There is almost always a good reason behind a animal biting or scratching and many more times than not I've found it's a person's fault, not the animal's.

[Sparktail]

1.) Do you own a pit bull or a pit bull-type of dog?
No, but I have friends who do.
2.) If yes, then did you train them from a puppy?
N/A
3.) How do you feel about certain breeds being banned?
I have mixed feelings. If owners of a dangerous breed are not treating their dogs right, then their right to own a dog should be taken away. Or at least until they are more responsible.
4.) Do you think pit bulls are dangerous breeds?
First, let me define dangerous. According to the Merriam Webster Dictionary(10th edition), dangerous means "able or likely to cause danger or harm." Pit bulls, like all other dogs, are able to cause harm to humans. Therefore, they are dangerous. However, how dangerous the dog is depends on how it was trained and bred. As a whole breed, I say they do have potential to harm humans, but they won't be too likely to injure someone if they were raised properly.
5.) Why do you think someone might diagree with you?
Yep. I agree with the others. Stereotyping.
6.) Have you ever been attacked by a dog or know someone who has?
No, but many of my friends have been bitten before. The puncture wounds were pretty deep, but we all agree that it wasn't the dog's fault. It just got surprised and acted impulsively, like all animals do. It was our fault for surprising them, or not reading they're body language.
7.) Anything else?
I hate how people think that something is dangerous without researching. For example, my friends hate bees and spiders. They claim that the insects/Arachnids WANT to sting or bite, and that they should be killed without question. Another day, I saw a group of boys stamping a carpenter bee into the dirt. They're reason? "Bees sting people. We want them off school campus."
I feel it's the same with pit bulls. This whole "they're so evil! KILL ALL OF DEM" thing started from people who just didn't know enough about the breed.

[Senzafine]

Do you own a pit bull or a pit bull-type of dog?
I do not, but some may see my rottie/golden mix in the same light.

If yes, then did you train them from a puppy?
I guess this may not count for me?

How do you feel about certain breeds being banned?
It's ridiculous. It's owners and breeders that should be banned, particularly pet (I don't mean hobby) breeders, careless kennels, and millers. These people perpetuate poor quality dogs or make good dogs' descendants degrade.

Do you think pit bulls are dangerous breeds?
I'm afraid there's truth in this, not because of the breed or the origin of it, but because of the breeders. If there's anything that the Russian silver fox project has shown, it's that temperament is absolutely inherited. The problem, however, isn't the pits, as these can be very high quality dogs and pets. The problem is when you perpetuate the very bad dogs's genes.

Why do you think someone might disagree with you?
Poor experience. I've also just met people who claim dogs as useless in their entirety, ignoring how dogs helped man spread and settle--and I mean they don't acknowledge the past, rather than pointing out that we've developed tools and no longer rely on dogs.

Have you ever been attacked by a dog or know someone who has?
I've been bit, not seriously. A friend's been targeted, but apparently, martial arts works on dogs, too? I've also had to handle my own dog in very bad situations, but have learned that being calm, but assertive will keep your own dog from biting you, however much of a show he's putting on.

Anything else?
Temperament and instinct are inherited factors. There are just some dogs that are not able to be fixed, and that will attack for no reason. These are cull animals (and the culling method can absolutely be mere neutering), meaning that they should not perpetuate, however pretty they are. We've got enough problems with the toy breeds. The problem here is not just bad owners which will destroy a good dog and turn it into a fighter, but also that there is a perpetuation of the genetically violent animals that should just not exist (consider the fighting cockerel, with an unnaturally high drive to fight their opponents, but in dog form)--we'd bred for too many thousand years away from that, why reinstate? If you don't want to believe that a dog can be genetically aggressive and that "nature vs nurture", you are forgetting the bait dogs; those who have everything within them screaming not to fight, and so become victims. Same nurture, different nature. There are both extremes and an in-between. The in-between can be rehabilitated, or perhaps they can sometimes be too far gone... but yes, rehabilitation is an option! However, you can't assume that they're all that way. I can only hope that this whole fighting matter is torn apart before the bad genes diffuse into the breed, or they're done for. On the same note, good breeders need to step up, and with a breed-ban, there will be too much fear and not enough homes to perpetuate these good dogs--it's counterproductive in the same way that banning a child from reading because they did poorly on their homework is. [Yeah, there was going to be something more controversial in that last part.]

[Rosehill]

Oh, if only more people understood the basic principles of how all animals learn and change their behaviour!

Too many dogs and other animals act out in self-defense and are then deemed dangerous when the whole situation could have been avoided if the human had known what they were doing. When enough of these things happen without people realising it's their own fault BSL is advocated and in the end it's the animals who suffer from the ignorance and indifference of humans.

In all simplicity if there are beneficial consequences to the dog after its actions it will act like that again. If there are non-beneficial consequences to the dog after its actions it will not act the same way again. There's no need to bully an animal around. There's no need to be a "pack leader" (dogs aren't even pack animals) or "show the dog who's boss" in the traditional sense. If the dog (or any other animal) acts the way you want it to, reward the animal. If the animal acts in a way you don't want it to, remove the thing that rewards and upholds the behaviour. When you control the thing the dog wants and what motivates it you can control the dog's actions.

Personally I don't think I'd get a pit bull or any other bully type dog for myself as I prefer slightly different types of breeds. I've had several clients with bullies, though, and they've all been quite sweet. Sure, some have been quite energetic and mouthy and with a powerful jaw and muscly body type they can get dangerous but with proper socialisation and consistent benevolent training any healthy animal should be happy and well-adjusted and unlikely to act dangerously.

Of course genetics does play a part in the dog's behaviour as well. Especially shyness and timidness can be inherited from the parents and a scared dog is more likely to go over threshold and lash out than a dog who is well-adjusted. Figuring out what kind of a personality the dog has and working with that is more important than just staring at the breed and trying to fit every individual inside a generalized breed description. Sometimes even the best of behaviour modification isn't enough to make it better either. There may be neurological issues or other health issues that make the dog act out and it's not always possible to treat those issues.

[PookyBunnies]

they have the potential to be dangerous, it depends on the owner. if the owner is nice and cares for the dog properly, then the dog should end up being nice and loving. if the owner abuses, yells, ties up for too long or any other things of the sort, i can only imagine the dog turning out to be aggressive and mean. pitbulls can be described as naturally violent dogs, but with the right training and tender care, they can turn out to be a pretty nice dog.

[vipor]

My personal opinion is that there are no breeds that are bad ecuas they are a (insert breed).
I've seent pit bull mixes that are absolute darlings and labs that are absolute horrors.
Even the dogs in dogfighting have their good points.
The only thing bad about the animals are the owners.

Yes, some dogs have an harder personality and yes some dogs are more subborn.
Its harder to train a dog that is bred to be independant than it is to train a dog that lives to serve.
But if you have no idea how to handle a dog and to train it, the dog is bound to cause trouble in one way or another.
But with a good owner every dog can be a little angel.

This said, it does not mean that every dog is identical.
Pit bulls can do more damage with one bite than a chihuahua.
Does that mean that a chihuahua's bark mean anything else than that of a pit bull? No.

The dogs have to meet other animals at an early age to make sure they will see them as friends and not as prey.
However this also works the other way around. No mather how gentle the pit bull is raised, is he meets my cat on an early age, he will be bound to either hate or fear cats.

But this raising doesn't just fit with dogs.
Right now the fear/hate for pit bulls are a hype. In a few years it will be a differnt breed of dog or a certian type of other animal.
The only breed that is truely dangerous is the human kind.

[TNHawke]

I got bit by a pit bull at work yesterday.

I'm curious what the knee jerk reactions people have to that statement are.

Spoiler

Further information:

One tooth caught my hand and gave me a slight puncture. It didn't even bleed. It's a slightly swollen spot with a small scab over it today.

Spoiler

Even more information:
He was biting at the high velocity air blower we used to dry the dogs after their bath. He was playing and happened to catch my hand. It was not at all intentional, or malicious. It was a complete accident where his mouth and my hand both tried to occupy the same spot in the same instant.

Spoiler

The rest of the story:
This pit, named Loki, is mostly white. His skin has brown spots, but his fur doesn't really. He has scars on his face and legs from fighting with other dogs. His known history is that he was rescued from a couple of homeless guys and he was super thin. It is suspected that he was once a bait dog. He now has a family who loves him, and whom he loves. He is at an excellent weight and in great health. He happily plays with other dogs, humans and toys. He has an amazing personality. He suffers nightmares. Loki is a prime example of the resilience, love and trust that dogs can possess.

[vipor]

First reaction to that single line.

Are you alrigth?

Later reaction after reading the full post.
Pupies like their little toys. Is it possible to get a longer nozzle to make sure your hand and his toy don't get to close next bathing round?

[TNHawke]

Lol. He's hardly a puppy, but he is just a giant, happy pup. He wasn't even really going after the nozzle, he wanted to bite the blowing air. But no, there's no way to get a bigger nozzle.
Ours is a different brand and slightly different design, but basically the same thing as this.