Trigger Warning: Sexual harassment/assault

[ShaiNeko]

I have an inbox, people. And I'm not kidding about the temp bans. Either bring your comments to me personally, or I will kick you off the site for a bit.

[Morgaln]

PeachyImperfect, I never said you need to be in control of your disorders. If you were, they wouldn't be disorders. What you are in control of, though, is what topics you click and read. This discussion didn't pop up suddenly in some unrelated topic. It was clearly labeled as what it is about. If the topic makes you uncomfortable or triggers your disorders, you need to stay out of it. Especially if you know that this is a sensitive topic for you. This is your responsibility, not ours.

If you think a topic isn't presenting all the facts or is missing vital information, you are allowed and encouraged to bring that information up to broaden the discussion. You cannot demand for it to be removed just because no one has brought up certain ideas yet.

The topic of what is and isn't rape isn't as clear-cut as you say, either. A lot of people who have been raped but not brutally so are unsure if what happened is actual rape. In some cases, people aren't actually aware that what they did was rape (although most times, this is just used as an excuse to try and avoid punishment). These cases are why people need to talk about this in public and educate others on what does and doesn't constitute consent. Sometimes you need to go into the basics before you can talk about more complex information.

As an example, about 25 years ago the laws of most countries didn't acknowledge the existence of marital rape. Marriage was considered blanket consent. Even though most western countries have changed that, the definition of marital rape and whether it is consider equal to extramarital rape still varies widely; not to mention that there are many countries (mostly in Africa and Asia) that still don't recognize marital rape at all.
There are also still a lot of people in western countries that think marrying someone gives them the right to demand sex; and even worse, those who think they have to give in to their spouse because they're married. These people need to learn that they have a right to refuse and that this is actually a crime, and public topics like this are one way to accomplish that.

Sexaual harassment and abuse is a crime with a particularly high dark figure. People are often afraid or ashamed to speak out. Censoring topics about rape will just make this worse, at it will reinforce the believe that this is something you "shouldn't talk about."

Long story short, this thread is serving an important and useful purpose. If you want to expand on what is there, you are very welcome. But you cannot demand for it to be removed because you personally don't want to discuss it.

[PeachyImperfect]

Clearly I need to write in complete English or everyone will absolutely ignore everything I say as if I'm speaking a foreign language.

To reiterate things I already said, but that no one is pointing out:

I read the thread months back when I wasn't having issues at the moment (because wow that's an actual thing that happens, you don't have to "walk on eggshells"!), and was hoping for an actual beneficial discussion with resources, articles, diagrams, ect. and was disappointed that it consisted of some rhetorical questions and nothing else, really. I come on here when I'm stressed, which is a lot, because I'm constantly anxious because of my anxiety disorder. I go to talk/browse a different thread on here and it claws at my mind to see this thread staring at me, knowing its filled with the same answers to the same questions over and over until someone screws up the answers. There's no actual education involved, the offending person just gets essays written in their general direction until they stop responding. It bothered me that the thread was about as helpful to someone looking for answers as a dead rotting tree branch- because the last thing a rape survivor wants is to hear some random people on the internet who may or may not not be survivors verbalizing their opinions. Trust me, the second you say you're a survivor everyone and their dog wants to give you their opinion. This bothered the hell out of me because despite everyone responding to me saying, "this needs to be discussed," there is hardly a discussion here in the first place, and it isn't going to help anyone who wants to know how to take care of themselves after rape, if they should call the police, if they should tell their parents, ect.

I asked if it could be removed cause it doesn't actually provide any help or insight that would benefit a victim, it just sat here looking at me while I tried to look at other things in this forum- which I don't think anyone is getting. I'm not showing up in here when I'm upset like "wow this is upsetting" because I'm not a brainless worm and I can actually take care of myself. I'm doing my own thing in another thread in the forum and you're telling me "well don't look at it gosh" when I'm not looking at it . There's this wonderful world of anxiety where things bother you whether or not you're directly confronting them. I just can't believe how insensitive that last comment was about understanding that I have something wrong with me and in the same paragraph saying that I need to control it. Literally floored by that.

Also, to the other people who think I'm trying to one-up ~senior members~ by mentioning how much time and money I've put into this- there's this thing where if you mention things like that, you generally get taken more seriously since you've made it clear that you're not some shmuck who rolled in here, contributed nothing, and is starting crap. In case you didn't know that, congrats! Now you do. I'm not infringing on your seniority or denouncing your role in this site. Amazing how the world works.

I keep hearing, "we need this cause people aren't educated about it." Where's the education? Where's the info? No where, that's where it is. And you can keep telling me things I already know, it's not like I've already stated I am engorged with information about this topic. Maybe I need to add that I'm part of my university's group to help other victims, or will people think I'm trying to one-up someone? Whatever the case may be, I don't understand why you suddenly pull out the useful, helpful facts when someone who knows them gets upset. Why weren't they already here, is the question- but that's a rhetorical question, just like the ones at the beginning of the thread. Funny how that works.

Now to prove that I'm not actually a useless member! Here have these:

general help sites:

https://www.rainn.org/
http://www.safehorizon.org/
http://www.newhopeforwomen.org/
http://somaticstrength.wordpress.com/ (better for religious people, I suppose)
http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/qrt/sur ... l-assault/
http://www.aardvarc.org/
http://www.pandys.org/
http://www.womenslaw.org/index.php (good if you're expecting to press charges)
http://www.womenscentertc.org/rape-cris ... -services/
http://www.ncadv.org/
http://www.aftersilence.org/index.php

male survivor help:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/
http://www.violenceunsilenced.com/
https://1in6.org/
http://www.soulspeakout.org/

self-care masterposts and safe spaces (because funnily enough, I take care of myself despite everyone here insisting I don't! also good for mentally ill people):

http://campus-survivors.org/post/102894 ... aster-post
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shy ... ing-stress
http://selfcare101.tumblr.com/post/7322 ... nses#notes
http://resourcesforacesurvivors.tumblr. ... e-a-little
http://safespacenetwork.tumblr.com/post ... umblr-list
http://chronic-illness-support.tumblr.c ... -resources

wow look how easy that was, and now you have actual content! Go crazy with it. Will be updating with more cool stuff like this, but I have a class to attend rn. All my friends quit the site so its not like I have anything better to do.

Edit: loving the title change, much more inclusive. Now we just need some snazzy lighting in here.

[ShaiNeko]

Right. This is going to PM. Everyone else, build on the conversation.

[MissMurderPaws]

Anywho. . .

I wanted to bring up a specific topic, if anybody wants to sort of discuss it, and that would be: Partner rape.
I wanted to know what you guys think of it? I've been in situations with my previous partner, where I would tell him I wasn't in the mood, and he would pursue it, even after I said no, until finally, I felt so guilty not giving it to him, that I caved in. I'm honestly sort of hazy there. Was that actually rape? I did consent, but only after saying no. I'm pretty sure it counts under the definition of rape, but. . .

And another thing, where as that did feel. . . sort of invasive, and made me feel dirty after wards, sometimes my current partner will do something sexual, and I will tell him I'm not in the mood. He sort of pursues it, like, asks if I would be okay if he tried to work me into the mood, and I tell him it's okay to try. (If it doesn't work, he backs off.) Would that be the same sort of thing?

[PeachyImperfect]

What you experienced w/previous partner would probably fall under coercive rape, i.e. someone goading you until you cave in. its manipulation at its darkest. you shouldnt feel guilty (although you cant really control feelings like that), because he manipulated you. a victim of manipulation is never guilty of anything. especially if you felt dirty or violated afterwards, that would def be coercive rape.

i was manipulated into dating a 18 year old guy when i was 13-14 and he did that, where you say no and they keep asking over and over til you say yes. however, your current partner asking if they could get you into the mood seems fine, cause its what me and my boyfriend do but if he pursues it to the extent that you feel like hes just looking for you to say yes, then thats unacceptable.

this link: https://www.eou.edu/sse/sex-matters/coe ... -scenario/ has an example with cultural differences being taken advantage of.
this link: http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2012/01/c ... -no/all/1/ has an example where a man asks for sex, gets turned down, then slowly coerces the woman into saying yes through intoxication.

hopefully you can compare what happened to you to these stories and hypothetical examples.

[MissMurderPaws]

Thank you

Yeah, I find it very disgusting when I see people doing that. I had a friend once who didn't want to have sex with his girlfriend for religious reasons, and she kept pushing him, and making fun of his manhood when he said he didn't want too. And even his friends were calling him some pretty rude, derogatory names about his gender, and lack of ability to "Get with her". It made me sick, because eventually he did cave, and had sex with her, felt awful about it, and she just dumped him, and started spreading horrible rumors about his. . Performance.

[GrowlingCupcake]

I think the resource links should be added to the first post. I haven't looked through all of them yet but I am sure they would be helpful to many people.

Can't say I like the title change... While "Sexual harassment/assault" is better, I don't like "Trigger Warning". I figure that someone who is triggered by such things would be able to understand from the rest of the title. Makes me feel we'd then want to put trigger warnings on any thing that could trigger people, and there are a lot of those. But that's just me; I don't like feeling like we coddle people, myself included.

Anywho. . .

I wanted to bring up a specific topic, if anybody wants to sort of discuss it, and that would be: Partner rape.
I wanted to know what you guys think of it? I've been in situations with my previous partner, where I would tell him I wasn't in the mood, and he would pursue it, even after I said no, until finally, I felt so guilty not giving it to him, that I caved in. I'm honestly sort of hazy there. Was that actually rape? I did consent, but only after saying no. I'm pretty sure it counts under the definition of rape, but. . .

And another thing, where as that did feel. . . sort of invasive, and made me feel dirty after wards, sometimes my current partner will do something sexual, and I will tell him I'm not in the mood. He sort of pursues it, like, asks if I would be okay if he tried to work me into the mood, and I tell him it's okay to try. (If it doesn't work, he backs off.) Would that be the same sort of thing?

You did not initially consent and you only did due to repeated pestering. I do not believe that should count as actual consent. Sure, he didn't put a gun to your head but he did make it so you felt you had no choice but to give in due to guilt. So yeah, I'd say it's rape. Though, legally it probably isn't; the laws aren't very good or clear about a lot of this.

I don't think your current partner is raping you at all. If he backs off, I don't think that's rape. He tries to ensure you're okay and if you're not enjoying it, he stops. It seems he takes into account how you feel and how you respond and is ensuring that you are a willing participant. Doesn't sound like rape to me. Unless I am incorrect in my understanding of how he behaves?

If you are uncomfortable with it, though, you have to tell him. Maybe tell him you don't like it when he tries to get you in the mood?

On the topic in general... I think things get fuzzy when it's someone you love, are affectionate with, etc. doing these things. We may not want to see them in a negative light. In addition, we probably want to remain with our partner. In situations regarding rape and domestic abuse, people tend to be more inclined to just tell you to leave the person. Hearing that from someone might not be what an abused person wants and that might make it harder to tell someone about it. I kind of wish there was more of an emphasis on fixing the relationship, in a healthy, safe way. Of course, this can't apply to all relationships; some of them are just too broken or damaging.

[MissMurderPaws]

I put it out of respect for the sensibilities of others, I guess. I'm not entirely sure. I will, however, definitely add the links to the title page.

I agree. At the time I was with my previous partner, I sort of brushed it under the rug, as "He just loved me so much, is all" or "It was my fault, I mean, come on Ty, low cut t-shirts? What's wrong with you!" My brain giving him the excuses he needed to do what he did.

Looking back on it now, I shudder to think what I let him get away with in the name of love, no matter how much it hurt me. My current partner is actually very concerned with me telling him if he's crossing a line. He actually got really upset when he thought I wasn't consenting, and he didn't stop. (It got cleared up, I did give him consent, he was worrying ) But the fact that somebody will actually demand to know if they're upsetting me is definitely nice.

I think a huge part of the blurry lines/consent problem lies in that: We don't teach our kids healthy sexual relationship early on. Not exactly teach them the whole nitty-gritty, but just "When he/she says no, you have to stop okay? If somebody says not to touch them, it's not okay to touch them." Stuff like that, because if kids are raised knowing that consent is when you have a clear, enthusiastic YES then maybe rape would be less of a problem.

I believe another problem lies in the fact that, in my experience, parents don't often take responsibility for their actions. "It wasn't my fault, It was ________" So kids sort of pick up on the idea that the actions they themselves preform, don't have to be their fault if they have an excuse. But that's just my opinion.

[Wynterborne]

Would it be within the scope of this thread to discuss how not to become a victim? I think that learning thru the stories shared by survivors, who I assume would be happy if they can help another person avoid their fate, would be a good thing.

My experience was a near miss. I was invited to party with some neighbors, and had a bad reaction to a recreational smoke. I was pretty much incapacited, and all I wanted to do was go home, but the chick that invited me did not want to take me because she thought my parents would tell her parents, so she left me with a guy I didn't know who said he'd walk me home. We started walking, but instead of heading to my house we ended up in the woods near some train tracks. I was crying, begging him to take me home, I couldn't walk on my own, and finally I puked on his shoes. That's when he finally took me home. I'm convince that I dodged a rape that day.

The lessons that I learned that day were :
1) Never get so incapacitated you can't get home on your own.
2) Don't do drugs. Period.
3) Be very careful who you party with,even tho you won't be getting wasted you still need to be able to trust the people you are with. Make sure your friends have your back in case something goes wrong, and that you do the same for them.