Tsunami in Japan, 3/11/11

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Re: Tsunami in Japan, 3/11/11

Post by ElementalNovel »

Holy crap. :t-hugs: I'm sorry to hear that, Bee. Honestly, you're all in my prayers.

As far as saying Japan deserves this, I'm going to have to say: bullcrap. The past conflicts between the US and Japan have been, mostly, resolved and been done with. Considering how close the two countries are I'm surprised so many are pulling out the punishment card.

Also, a subissue, we've been talking about the tsunami in school and quite a few insults have been thrown around when people mention that they feel more affected by this disaster than the quake in Haiti or the tsunami in Asia Minor. Do we have any thoughts on this? Does anyone else feel more affected by the Japanese tsunami than these other disasters?
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Re: Tsunami in Japan, 3/11/11

Post by TxCat »

Bee and Pink, you have my best wishes.

I 'only' had friends over there but I've not heard from any of them so I must assume that they're dead. Not the same as losing family but it still hurts. The only good news was that I did finally hear from my Coast Guard friend who lived in California. He was out of circulation because of a back injury and now he's going on vacation. They won't deploy him.

I can't help being grateful for that.

I'm curious what they think the long term effects will be globally of the radiation which was released. Since we all share the same atmosphere, it WILL circulate around the globe. I keep seeing conflicting news statements regarding just how high the radiation is and how much is needed to make people ill or kill them.
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Re: Tsunami in Japan, 3/11/11

Post by Sevillia »

At the moment 'm quite concerned about the group of nuclear reactors; three have depleted water pools, and two and raising temperatures. If the plants meltdown, it would be the worst nuclear disaster ever. Food deliveries are not even reaching within 30km of the site to bring food to the people there and the radius of the damage may be larger.
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Re: Tsunami in Japan, 3/11/11

Post by wolfeyedangel »

Sevillia, have you actually read the articles being posted about this topic? What are your sources? Especially here, saying things like that are not appropriate. This is still the Hall of Speakers where a higher level of thought is required. See this post for some very good links:

8-community-discussion/100925-earthquak ... #p10707984

If you wish to re-state your claims please provide evidence. If your evidence is from the news please provide multiple sources since many agencies are sensationalizing the issue.

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Re: Tsunami in Japan, 3/11/11

Post by TxCat »

You can also check here:

Nuclear Energy Institute

Their updates have come in regularly as they receive information. According to them, they're currently putting water back into the reactor which had a temperature rise. It did lose some of its coolant but it has not run dry; the water is lower than normal which is why they are putting water back into it.

NONE of the reactors have melted down (which would require the inner containment vessel to go completely dry and then the fuel to literally sink through its protective barrier into the floor). They've lost the outer containment wall on one reactor and suspect a leak in the inner containment barrier of the one which is losing water.

While serious and in critical need of remediation, none of this has reached catastrophic levels. The radiation around the plant is, in fact, going down rather than up and they've been able to keep the inner containment vessels from rupturing further or collapsing. This bodes well for long term control.

The main issues they're having are that the equipment they would normally have used for back-up and to help get the reactors under control is buried in the tsunami debris. The failure of the plants were not in and of themselves caused by the earthquake and tsunami but by the fact that this is a 500 year event and the reactors, which last but a fraction of that period, were not designed for an event which couldn't be predicted and would not, under normal circumstances, have happened. That the reactors are still standing at all after an earthquake of that degree is testimony of the great engineering skills and the success of the redundant back-ups they had in place.
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Re: Tsunami in Japan, 3/11/11

Post by DoctorOctopus »

Also note that the reactors were designed to withstand earthquakes with magnitude of 7.9. The Richter scale is logarithmic, which means that for every full integer increase of rating, the strength of the quake increases by a factor of 10. I find it pretty impressive that the reactors have held up this well given that they weren't designed for a quake that strong plus a massive tsunami.
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Re: Tsunami in Japan, 3/11/11

Post by TxCat »

New information:

Japan Begins Water Drops on Reactor
Attempts to cool down a stricken reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant suffered an early setback on Thursday after seawater dumped from the air failed to bring down radiation levels.

Radiation readings taken 20 minutes after self-defence force helicopters doused the plant's No 3 reactor remained unchanged, Tokyo Electric Power [Tepco] said, according to Kyodo news agcncy.

The use of Japanese military helicopters to drop seawater onto the plant's reactor marked the opening of a new front in the battle to avert nuclear meltdown.

...

The ministry said it planned to release at least 12 more loads in the 40 minutes that each crew can remain in the area before experiencing limited radiation exposure.

The aim of the operation is twofold: to cool the reactor and replenish a pool containing spent fuel rods. Although Tepco has been unable to take precise measurements, the pool is thought to be almost empty of water, raising the risk that the fuel rods will overheat and melt.

Earlier, Gregory Jackzo, chairman of the US nuclear regulatory commission told a congressional hearing in Washington that the storage pool at another reactor had lost all of its water and was in danger of spewing more radioactive material.

At lunchtime on Thursday the police stood ready to spray the No 3 reactor from 11 water cannon trucks, as the focus of the crisis shifted from overheating reactors to the potentially more dangerous predicament of the storage pools.

The roofs of the No 3 and No 4 reactors were blown away by hydrogen explosions earlier this week, depriving them of a last line of defence against potentially dangerous radiation leaks.

In the worst-case scenario, overheating fuel rods could heat up to the point where they begin to melt and release high levels of radioactivity.

Tepco said it was attempting to open a temporary power line to the plant, 150 miles north of Tokyo, which would allow it to pump water directly into the storage pools and reactor cores.

...

Elevated - though not hazardous - levels of radiation have been detected well outside the Fukushima evacuation zone. In Ibaraki prefecture to the south, officials said radiation levels were about 300 times normal levels by late Wednesday morning.

It would take three years of constant exposure to these higher levels to raise a person's risk of cancer.
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Re: Tsunami in Japan, 3/11/11

Post by GrowlingCupcake »

FrozenFire wrote:
Cocoa wrote:Japan has been hit with earthquakes before, just this one is a lot more powerful than any others experienced in the past century. I believe this earthquake was a lesson of some sort. Most disasters that happen seem to have lessons. Maybe the lesson is to build more stable nuclear power-plants? I'm not sure.
I don't think that any nuclear power plant would have been able to withstand a 9.0 magnitude earthquake. Then again, I'm almost certain that people will use this as grounds to not build nuclear plants even though they're normally safe if maintained properly and are good for powering areas with high populations.
My understanding of it is that the earthquake didn't harm the power plants; it was the tsunami.

I've been seeing a lot of news on how Japan was wrong to build nuclear power plants. It bugs me a lot since it was a move to clean/green energy, something which I think more countries need to be involved in.

Are the people manning the plants giving their lives to save everyone else?

Also, I don't know if this has been mentioned but I cannot believe how orderly and neatly things are going... other countries would probably have riots and looting by now but I have heard nothing of the sorts from Japan. It's amazing how well they are withstanding these disasters.
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Re: Tsunami in Japan, 3/11/11

Post by TxCat »

Updated information links:

Radiation Levels Falling at Fukushima Plant
A level of 752 microsieverts per hour was recorded at the plant's main gate at 5 p.m. (0800 GMT) on Wednesday, said the official, Tetsuo Ohmura. The monitoring point was then changed to the plant's west gate and readings were taken every 30 minutes, he said. At 5 a.m. the reading was 338 microsieverts per hour.

That level was still much higher then it should be, but was not dangerous, and that by comparison absorption of a level of 400 was normal from being outside over the course of a year, Ohmura said.
Pictures of Plant Devastation

Helicopters flying over the plant in an effort to maintain the cooling of the reactor have taken pictures of the devastation inside the reactor itself. Note that while the cement wall on #4 is gone, the actual containment vessel is still intact. Note that #3 still retains part of the cement containment wall. Both of these are advantages considering the crisis as they allow some protection from radiation escaping the plant.

Helicopters and Tankers in Bid to Cool Fukushima Reactor
The plant operators are trying to reactivate the power to re-start cooling systems, blocked the earthquake and tsunami. The incident caused the overheating of the reactor, where in recent days there have been explosions and fires in four of six reactors. People who live in a radius of 30 km are being invited to stay indoors or leave the area.

Despite the danger of radiation, 50 engineers have decided to continue the work to prevent the risk of a nuclear disaster. Today, another 300 volunteer workers joined them in an attempt to reactivate the electrical system and therefore the cooling of the reactors.

In some parts radiation levels have reached 10 millisievert, permitting a maximum exposure of only 10 -25 hours.
Note that it does not say those workers will die; it simply says that there is a limit to the amount of time they can be exposed to that environment without getting sick. Per articles previously posted in this thread 10 millisievert is the cut-off point at which, after maximum exposure time is reached, a human being will start feeling ill.

Japan Nuclear Situation Serious but Stable
The situation at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant was serious but "reasonably stable" on Thursday with no major worsening since the day before, a senior U.N. nuclear watchdog official said.

"It hasn't got worse, which is positive," Graham Andrew of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said. "The situation remains very serious but there has been no significant worsening since yesterday."
Note the comments about the overall safety record of nuclear power. Given the short time in which we've been using it, this is rather impressive.

The citizens, on the other hand, are really suffering from the general effects of the disaster.

For Japan Tsunami Survivors, Woes Mount

A List of Tips on How to Help and What Charities are Reliable

How to Help

A list of active charities with donation links and a blurb about the type of help they're providing.

More options and a list of Earthquake Relief Personnel

Includes a list of organizations helping to find out the fates of the missing for those who had loved ones in the devastated area.

Another Excellent List of Charities with Donation Links

Don't send supplies personally. You have no way of knowing what may be specifically needed and no guarantee your donation will make it through customs to the people to whom it is intended. Don't send religious conversion materials; they don't need them now, don't want them, and it's a waste of resources as well as an insult.

You can help locally by donating blood and plasma; blood products are sure to be needed as the weeks go on.
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Re: Tsunami in Japan, 3/11/11

Post by Lone »

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I saw on the news that the earthquake was so powerful it made the Earth's Axis tilt 6 1/2 more inches, and that Japan moved over 8 more feet. It's kind of crazy how powerful it was. Lets just hope that Japan will get through this, and everything will be okay.
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