Legalization of marijuana

[wolfeyedangel]

Certainly, in addition to the sources I cited previously here: 42-none/102044-none.html#p10782319

The abstracts for several studies on the subject (I'm still looking for the full text of the articles, but the abstracts summarize the finding and give sufficient information that if you have access to a good physical research library, such as a university many of which are open to the public for entry and research if not for checkout, anyone should be able to locate them):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1668226
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11508050

These two are likely directly related possibly the second a sub study of the first:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16419389
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15516313

These demonstrate that Marijuana is detectable in the urine even after passive inhalation (that is second-hand smoke). This supports my own experiences in Hawaii (where, to be blunt it was very difficult NOT to run into someone smoking the stuff, it has a very distinct odor) and several conversations I had with individuals who had served on various controlled substance squads and the fact they were exempted from urinalysis for specified periods while on those details (and soldiers talk about the after effects of all the junk in the air no matter who they're raiding.)

Another abstract that might be of interest though it is more from the judicial side:
http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/a ... ?ID=209379

Most of these look like you're going to have to hit a library or pay to get the full copy of the article.

Here is a more general resource on the topic:
http://www.drugabuse.gov/NIDA_Notes/NN0058.html

I will post again should I locate these articles in a legally distributable full-document format.

~Wolfeyedangel

[TxCat]

I saw this news article and thought I would pass it on:

Cannabis-like Drugs Could Kill Pain Without the High

An ingenious set of experiments has teased apart the mind-altering and pain-relieving effects of the main component of cannabis. This could open the way to cannabis-like drugs that provide pain relief without causing unwanted highs.

While it won't do much good for the folks who are intent on using recreationally, this seems to be a good advance for those who need the treatments cannabis can offer. My only real complaint is that the study focused on pain relief; it does not mention whether or not the THC is an active component in glaucoma relief or what neutralizing it would do.

[Mimlia]

Er-well, my opinion on this is rather personal. When I was twelve years old and was in seventh grade (one year ago,) one of my close friends (she was thirteen) when she discovered a drug dealer in a covert mall corner. Apparently, it's where all the teenagers get their drugs at. You can get a pretty large zip bag of marijuana for $15. One of her "friends" told her this.
She is fourteen now, in rehab. She will be missing her high school years to get well.
The truth about marijuana is that it kills and ruins lives. My friend was a smart talented student, a matching partner with me in my Humanites class, a talent in Speech. She was enrolled in all honors and GT with me. She was a beautiful girl, practically the whole school of boys pined after her. She will be having this on her permanent record from now on.
Laws against marijuana protect teens like her from ever even trying marijuana. Teenagers fear the wrath of law, if you can believe it. Yes, people will still do it anyway, but laws can make them do it less. Precautions and such laws can provide a barrier for addiction. Every time you do it, you are in danger of being caught doing it, and that fear adds a precaution, an awareness. That sort of awareness can certainly save lives.
Yes, a law against marijuana can be a trouble, but it's a trouble that can prevent people from doing this.
It is an important point that it being forbidden can make people want it. But people probably would do it a lot more if there wasn't a law. Consider the Temperance-of course, everyone still had alcohol. But when alcohol was legalized, there were bars, every household openly having alcohol-people realizing how much it would be easier to get the alcohol, and taking advantage of that.
It's my opinion that marijuana is a much more dangerous sort of drug and addiction and legalizing it is not the same scale of danger as it is with alcohol.
As for the medical side of the argument-medicine is an ever-changing field. I'm sure that they can find a way to get rid of the pain soon without the use of marijuana.

[TxCat]

While I respect your opinion, I don't agree with it. You certainly had a traumatic experience with recreational drug use and I can understand how it may have affected you, but you also speak with the lack of knowledge of one who has never had a chronic pain condition or known anyone with one. More on that later.

She is fourteen now, in rehab. She will be missing her high school years to get well.

While this is tragic, there seem to be several crucial details missing from the incident.

For instance: what, if anything, was the marijuana cut with? (Some dealers do, in fact, cut their product with other substances which encourage dependency and addiction; it is also, however, possible to get a good product from a reputable dealer. The reputable dealers will not cut their product). It seems to me that, at that price, in this day and age, it HAD to have been cut with something and/or not of very good quality. Twenty years ago, when I was in college, I was often with friends who used marijuana recreationally. A 'quarter' bag (that's one sandwich bag, approximately half full of plant matter with a minimum of seeds or other debris) cost about $25 dollars (hence, the name 'quarter' bag). $15 dollars seems a bit low for anything of decent quality.

Also, what was her family history? Addiction in general regardless of the source and substance has been proven to be at least partially inherited or genetic. If she had even one opium addict or alcoholic or even a cigarette smoker in her family tree, it may have predisposed her to use other substances.

Did you really know her? Many addicts are able to keep a normal facade until something takes it beyond their control (you don't mention how she ended up in rehab either). She could still have been using all that time and you wouldn't have noticed. Particularly at that age, even the best of friends don't always tell one another everything. She could have had other problems such as a mental illness for which she tried to self mediate.

Did she stay with the marijuana or try other products? That too is a factor in addiction. For addictive personalities (ie: those with a predisposition to addictions), marijuana is indeed considered a gateway drug to using other substances. You can't be certain that she wasn't using other drugs or that the marijuana was the deciding factor in messing her up.

At some point, responsibility has to be laid with the individual as well. For whatever reason, she chose to use marijuana. That is not society's fault nor is it society's responsibility. She made that choice. The drug dealer did not come to her, she went to him. Further responsibility must be placed with the parents. Where were they while their daughter was using drugs? Children at that age are generally too young to hold a job and to have access to anything other than a small allowance. Where did she get the money? Why did they give it to her? Why weren't the adults in her life more closely supervising her behavior and controlling the people she hung out with and how that money was spent.

The truth about marijuana is that it kills and ruins lives.

The truth is, it's a tool just like any other. Phenobarbitol and its derivatives have addictive potential and people do abuse them, but they're still useful as medical tools. It's not the fault of the substance that there are people out there looking for the next thrill who seek it by abusing substances. Cocaine still has its medical uses; the injections you receive in the dentist's office are derived from it, it shares the same plant origin as chocolate, and it's still used in its undiluted form for curtailing severe bleeding and severe nosebleeds. Any medication, medical procedure, or activity has the potential for addiction when encountered by someone predisposed to such. There are many legal substances which are just as problematic: plastic surgery, video games, tobacco, alcohol, various foods, food in general, even exercise and dieting. It ultimately comes down to the responsibility of the individual and, in the case of minors, the adults and caretakers around them.

She will be having this on her permanent record from now on.

No, she won't. Even if there was a court order and law enforcement involved, her records will be sealed when she turns eighteen. Potential schools and employers will not even know she was in rehab nor will they know with what she was charged if she broke the law and was arrested. Granted, the social stigma may be there for a while but that can be overcome. That's one thing they teach them to deal with in rehab: how to cope with the way society reacts when one has an addiction and seeks treatment.

Laws against marijuana protect teens like her from ever even trying marijuana.

I find this to be a logic fallacy. Obviously, since marijuana is illegal for all but medical use in most if not all states, the law did not keep your friend from trying it. The existing laws against alcohol and tobacco use certainly don't keep teens from trying those substances either or from doing things like huffing glue and solvents. Right now, laws against marijuana block legitimate medical treatments for those who need them without providing any real benefit to society. In terms of the amount of money wasted from the local through the federal level putting away non-violent drug offenders, it's a disaster and it hasn't put a dent in the trade.

You may wish to look up Prohibition. The concept was similar: outlaw the making of or use of alcoholic substances and the unacceptable behaviors of those who use it would be curtailed. The only thing it did was make people get more clever and more dangerous about making and drinking alcohol. Hundreds of law enforcement officers lost their lives needlessly in pursuit of bootleggers. It also increased gangster related activities as major crime syndicates moved in to provide a need which had not, after all, gone away when the substance was made illegal.

Outlawing substances people abuse doesn't work.

It's my opinion that marijuana is a much more dangerous sort of drug and addiction and legalizing it is not the same scale of danger as it is with alcohol.

The problem with such an opinion, especially in this forum, is that it isn't enough to simply have that conviction. You have to be able to back it up with tangible proof. All of the links I have seen presented thus far argue strongly for controlling who has access to marijuana but not specifically for it being illegal. As we've already said, addiction in general plays a large part in what someone will do. It may even be --- the research is still forthcoming --- that there are specific receptors in the brain which produce addiction for some people but not for others. Already, over seas (see the article above which I linked to) they have established that these receptors can be blocked so that addiction and the resulting high do not occur when used medically.

I have seen no conclusive proof that any one addiction is more dangerous than the other. There is, however, a large body of evidence indicating that outlawing of a substance will definitely not prevent teens from having access to it and will not prevent the public at large from having access to it.

Because they were one of the most proactive law enforcement units during Prohibition, the measures taken by the Texas Rangers are well documented. Lone Wolf Gonzaullaz, a biography of just one Ranger involved, spends the first third of the book explaining how much time and effort these types of laws often waste with little to show for it except otherwise honest citizens ruined. It also tells how such law enforcement officers actually feel about this colossal waste of their efforts. I'm sure someone else could give some Prohibition specific books and links; I just don't happen to have one on hand.

As for the medical side of the argument-medicine is an ever-changing field. I'm sure that they can find a way to get rid of the pain soon without the use of marijuana

I don't share your confidence. Pain is one of the oldest maladies suffered by the human bodies and we're still not even certain how it works or in a lot of cases what causes it. As someone who is nearing the end of the spectrum of pain medications which WILL help, I would fervently hope for legalization of marijuana as a medical product some time soon in the state in which I live (or at least somewhere near to hand where I can obtain it). I don't think people truly understand what is meant by chronic pain and suffering. Most of what we put up with on daily basis would have a normal human being rolling around screaming and begging for mercy. I started with OTC analgesics. I've since been prescribed everything from codeine to morphine to accupressure injections to cortizone injections to Vicodin (which dulls the pain but does not ever, ever completely rid me of it). The ONE substance which actually made it possible for me to function and be free of pain, I cannot get.

No one should have to put up with that.

I am not for complete legalization but I think a blanket banning of a potentially useful medical substance under a moral banner of "think of the children" (even as those parents aren't bothering WATCHING their children) just stinks.

[LittleFireCat]

Did she stay with the marijuana or try other products? That too is a factor in addiction. For addictive personalities (ie: those with a predisposition to addictions), marijuana is indeed considered a gateway drug to using other substances. You can't be certain that she wasn't using other drugs or that the marijuana was the deciding factor in messing her up.

The 'gateway drug' theory is very much in doubt right now, regardless of what the war on drugs supporters say.

Each of the phenomena used to support claims of a 'marijuana gateway effect' are reproduced by the model, even though marijuana use has no causal influence over hard drug initiation in the model.

here and more here

The Commission was concerned that the use of cannabis would lead to the use of other drugs. Thirty years' experience in the Netherlands disproves this clearly, as do the liberal policies of Spain, Italy and Portugal. And here in Canada, despite the growing increase in cannabis users, we have not had a proportionate increase in users of hard drugs.

from the Conclusions and recommendations section

[Mimlia]

Well, the thing is she tried to give me some once. I refused, and then she told me I could find it at that certain place-I'm not exactly sure whether or not her info was true, but it sounded reasonable for me.
Honestly, I didn't notice at all, really, until she told me she was using it. I simply told her how bad it was and gave her reminders, like printing out articles from the web and copying them from a magazine. She was a good girl, and while I never saw out of her family expect her parents, seemed to come from a good background. Her mother was stay-at-home, her father a boss somewhere. I rather expected her to stop doing it. She was that kind of girl-I thought she was, at least.

Spoiler

Might be considered off topic, but she did complain about her parents a lot. I think she might have possibly come the kind of family where you have that overbearing mother and a father that's away all the time. I didn't really notice anything particular at the time involving her parents.

I figured she would be off the marijuana in no time. My dumb opinion, I guess.
I do know for sure that she stayed with the marijuana because the school found her out. Several times, about three. By then she wouldn't talk to me at all-she called me inappropriate things and acted very inappropriately. She hung out with a different group of kids, dropped out of GT and honors. I left it to the police to try to sort her out. I did check her out once. I'm not going to elaborate, because the experience isn't exactly one I want to keep close, but I'm pretty sure she was addicted to it by then, and some other drug too-I don't know the name for it.
I don't want to expose how she got into rehab-it's out of respect for her. I'll simply add that she was arrested and it wasn't her choice to "get better" and that it would answer your money question.
I have no idea how she got away with it. I think that it was simply because everyone thought she would get better, that she was too young to get into those kinds of things. It's an incorrect assumption-I think there is kind of census somewhere, that proves that more and younger kinds are getting into this. It is a tool, and it can get it out of control. It wasn't exactly the girl's fault-you could point several people who could have drove her to this.
Not the permanent record you're referring to-our district keeps a portfolio, "record" of everyone. The colleges, schools, education related-they will see it. It will include whether she broke a major rule (like bringing marijuana into the school.) Colleges can ask for it.
That blanket you're referring to does save lives. Our school shows tons of videos and host seminars about drugs, even more now since her incident. It does scare the teens. It's not proven to, obviously-and you do have a good point. It is their choice. But without all laws, won't teens try to take advantage of that? I have a distinct feeling that my friend could have gone even more over the edge. I've talked it about with my friends, just right after she went into rehab-they all agree that there should be even more laws placed over marijuana. The logic flow after this basically point to that they're scared of trying it with the potential of the consequences.
Er, well, just as I stated, it's just my opinion the marijuana is more dangerous. I haven't seen alcohol kill around around in our district-no incident involving it yet. I agree with you, but my experience with marijuana leads me to believe this.
Isn't marijuana legalized for medical purposes? It's probably a pain to acquire, but if the hospitals cared about people, they'd probably have it. My thought process goes sort of flows through that with the laws that with the laws, we could prevent more pain from happening.
Again, most of it is really my opinion...I'm probably also terribly biased, but it's for a good reason.

[Shona]

I have had marijuana prescribed for well over a year. i did not use it for quite a while, due to worries of other things though.

However, I now wish I had been willing to try it before when my doctor first suggested it, or a synthetic medication.

It is fantastic for pain relief, keeps me from stressing so much about every little thing which has a beneficial impact on my immune system (I have AIDS), helps with my nausea, and boosts my appetite.

I have always been underweight, even before I became so ill. Now for the first time in my entire life, most of the past year, I have nearly been up to a modestly acceptable weight. Still underweight, but not by much, whereas before it was by a great margin, dangerously underweight...

However, I do not want it legal for EVERYONE, but at the same time, I truly do equate it to alcohol, and feel they should be treated the same legally.

Now, I do not want to expose my nephew to it. I am adopting him, and he is young. I do not use while he is awake, and i go into our backyard. Or if it is very cold, I smoke in my room, with my door closed, window open, and try to ensure as much as possible goes outside. Then I leave the window open at least a couple of hours after.

I've not researched it, but I am wary of exposing any physically immature person to any mind altering chemicals, and I imagine very little research is available along those lines anyhow. Buuuut... for adults, I do feel it is valid medication, and also feel it is no more harmful than alcohol and so both should be legal if one is

[Keolah]

Er, well, just as I stated, it's just my opinion the marijuana is more dangerous. I haven't seen alcohol kill around around in our district-no incident involving it yet. I agree with you, but my experience with marijuana leads me to believe this.

Tens of thousands of people die in the US alone every year from alcohol-related causes. Drunk driving, liver damage, overdose, etc. Whereas, for marijuana... I can't find any evidence that anyone has died just from marijuana. In fact, what I did find was things like this:

"Nearly all medicines have toxic, potentially lethal effects. But marijuana is not such a substance. There is no record in the extensive medical literature describing a proven, documented cannabis-induced fatality." Source:
US Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration, "In the Matter of Marijuana Rescheduling Petition" (Docket #86-22), September 6, 1988, p. 56-57.

Effectively... Aspirin is more dangerous than marijuana. (Google "marijuana death statistics" sometime. And not all of the results are from obviously pro-marijuana sites, either.)

And so far as behavior alterations, marijuana tends to make people more "mellow", whereas alcohol can make people reckless and violent.

"Cannabis differs from alcohol … in one major respect. It does not seem to increase risk-taking behavior. This means that cannabis rarely contributes to violence either to others or to oneself, whereas alcohol use is a major factor in deliberate self-harm, domestic accidents and violence." Source: British Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, 2002.

[kahara]

Many thanks at wolfeyedangel for those links.

Although I have to say, I really am all for legalization of it. From what I've read up on and heard so far, as long as well maintained or done properly as prescribed by a doctor, I see no reason not to legalize it. / shrugs

I mean, any drug that becomes legalized has that possibility of being abused by someone out there in attempt to get high or have some sort of trip. I know quite a few people who have benefited from prescription marijuana, not many but a few, and they tell me they wish that had gone on it sooner.

My opinion? Yes, I think it should be legalized. ~