Animal Rights

[Rainwater]

Yeah, but... why can't predators be introduced from other places for the purpose of keeping down the numbers?? Then the ecosystem would be pretty safe from overforestation and stuff like that...

From what I have seen, reintroduction of predators is very difficult. If the predators kill something other than the intended prey target (a pet/livestock/human), then the local population often wants them gone (not everyone of course). Where I am in the Midwest, even the country isn't very wild. It is very rare to go a few miles without seeing a home or farm, and only the southern most part of the state could probably handle a large predator. And people seem to love to find the most remote places to live (at least, that is what farm calls taught me). So, wolves or cougars (for example) would not be very welcome due to the perceived danger. I cannot see them being brought in to help with the deer population without significant resistance.

[TxCat]

Yeah, but... why can't predators be introduced from other places for the purpose of keeping down the numbers?? Then the ecosystem would be pretty safe from overforestation and stuff like that...

But what if a discovery in another 50 years led to the fact that plants are sentient?? Would everyone still eat stuff like that then?? Or if another species lie deer or felines evolves into sentient beings (it's highly unlikely since humans are everywhere, but still...)??

It's called ecological balance. Ecologies are tricky things. You cannot just introduces a predator which seems like it might use the prey in question into an area. If the prey's original predator was a brown bear, for instance, it would do little good to introduce a grizzly because it seems similar (in point of fact, they occur in two different habitats and eat different things). At one point, they had discussed increasing the genetic diversity of the Florida panther by introducing a variety of related species, including the Texas panther and a western breed of bobcat. Know what happened? They took over the Florida panther's remaining habitat, reducing their numbers further. The bobcats, meanwhile (which I don't believe are even compatible with panthers), DID interbreed...with feral cats. We now have to spend money on tracking down these nuisances and spaying or neutering them so that they won't create further pressure on the ecology. Meanwhile, the released animals are also playing havoc with other species. They LOVE eating the gopher tortoises, which are already endangered.

There's some evidence that plants can react in a sentient manner to stimuli already. It would not surprise me to find that at least one other animal and/or life form on the planet might be sentient (whales and manatee are good candidates, as are dolphins and even some species of insects). While we can't seem to stop the rest of the world from eating these creatures, at least the concept of sentience has spread far enough that the US no longer uses them for food or other resources. I would suppose, in that event, that some sort of protective measures similar to those for endangered species would be enacted.

Right now though? I doubt that cow is sentient. I'm fairly certain that the deer I take aren't. Besides, I was taught the proper manner of hunting and the proper place to look for animals who want to offer themselves for that purpose (many aboriginal cultures have this practice)...but that's another thread.

No, reintroduction of predators isn't the answer (much as I would love to see wolves running free all over the US again). As someone already mentioned, the problem with matching predators to 'similar' prey is that they aren't sentient. A wolf only knows meat; it doesn't understand "That's a herd of cattle, stay out of it". If the deer have had a hard year, the predators WILL come down into the livestock. They WILL eat that livestock. Then you get the same vicious cycle we have now with people, legally or not, hunting them to elimination and their intended prey starving because of disease and overpopulation.

[Tortuga]

Lab testing- WRONG, unless it is medical testing because in turn that could also benefit animals as well. For cosmetics, NO WAY!

Abuse+Neglect- Anyone who causes pain and distress to any animal should be prosecuted by law.

General Animal Rights- Animals need rights to fair treatment, good shelter, food and water.

Show animals- Animals for film and tv are often well cared for and socialised, they're not poked & prodded and beaten like circuses. Elephants are one of the higher thinking beings on this planet, they belong in their native habitat not anywhere near a circus.
Horse races should be banned. If a horse doesn't make enough, they're ignored and eventually sent off to die a horrid death and end up on a plate in Belgium or France. PERFECTLY healthy sound horses that would have talents elsewhere, wasted.

Farming-Farm animals (boving, fowl, porcine, etc) are bred for food. Slaughterhouses are nasty (kosher ones are worse). They do deserve fair treatment while they live and a quick and painless death. The bolt in the head doesn't do it every time. They feel it.

Veganism/Vegetarianism- It's not right or wrong, it's a choice. Live and let live.

Fishing etc.- Whales should never be killed for any reason. Fish, we need to shift to other species while an overfished species replenishes.

Overpopulation (Humans AND Animals)- Humans are mostly the blame. Overpopulation of deer, humans killed off the predators 100 yrs ago. Duh.

Pets-See, there's a blurry line. What's considered a pet? Chickens can be, a cow, sheep, goat...hedgehogs...I personally believe no horse or reptile should be consumed. Ever. Reptile species are becoming rare. (Asians are a turtle's worst enemy, they take up too many species of turtles. Take take take...until the last one lives. Case in point, that huge softshell they're trying to breed and failing, the LAST living pair.)

Hunting- Not a fan of hunting but use the whole animal. Trophy hunting should be banned.

Trapping/Fur- AGAINST. cut & dry. We have synthetics to keep warm. An animal's skin is not fashionable, it's gross.

Culture- Cultures can change. Kill them fast and painless.
Religion- Screw religion, go kill a rapist prisoner for sacrifice LOL

[MageLorelei]

Well, I'll list my opinions and why.

Lab Testing: I think this is wrong. UNLESS it is something for animals. People should test things that will be used on people. Just because we're, supposedly, more advanced, we have a right to not have to do the scary and hard stuff.

Abuse and Neglect: People who do this are just wrong. I don't care if it isn't fuzzy and cute, animals have rights. They think, they feel, they eat. Maybe they can't speak, but neither can babies. And I believe animals think. The certainly dream, and are able to learn from experience. That leads me to believe they can think. Which is more than can be said for some humans.

General Animal Rights: I think animals should have the same basic rights as humans. Should they be able to vote? No. Should they be able to go to a shelter during a hurricane or something? Definitely. The basic rights. To have access to clean and safe food, water and shelter.

Animal Entertainment: This one I'm mixed on. I don't like circuses. Some aren't very nice to their animals, and watching them makes me feel sick. However, things like zoos? I, in general, like them. But not all. There is a zoo semi close to my house that has HORRIBLE conditions. I don't approve of that. Not to mention one of their tigers got loose. Regardless, as I said, that's not the type of zoo I like. I like zoos suck as the San Diego Zoo, or the Bronx Zoo. Any zoo where the animals are kept in large, clean habitats that simulate their environment.

Farming: I don't know if anyone has ever seen the movie "Temple Grandin", but during it, the actress who portrays her has a great line. "If we didn't eat cows they'd just be some funny looking animal in a zoo." As in: Cows have almost no other use than to provide food. I think farming is a great thing... if the conditions are right. Free range, well-fed cattle taste the best, and happy cows make better milk. At one point she also says: "We eat them! So we have a responsibility to take care of them their entire lives" or something like that. Unfortunately, that's expensive. I would like nothing better in the world to only eat organic and free-range meat. I could become a vegetarian, but that would just be too hard for me. I've tried. But farming is a good thing. It has given us access to things like eggs, and milk. If there was no farming we probably wouldn't have those.

Vegans/Vegetarians: I think everyone should do their own thing. I have a few friends who are Vegans and Vegetarians, and they're very nice. I've NEVER seen them try to force someone else to stop eating meat or animal products. They're just fine if we go out to eat and I order a burger. As I said earlier, I could never be one. Partly because meat just tastes so good, and partly because it is slightly more expensive. That being said, I don't eat meat with every meal and eat any kind. I won't eat lamb or veal. They're babies. I can eat the adults just fine, but I just have a problem eating baby animals. I also always try to enjoy the food I'm eating. Things died so I could eat this. I rarely throw food away, because I kind of feel like it's rude to the creatures.

Skipping over Fishing because I have no real opinion on it.

Overpopulation: I'm only doing this for animals, because the people one is much too long. Not to say there won't be anything people related. But... we have an overpopulation of animals. I'm talking about 'pet' animals such as dogs and cats. People need to spay and neuter their animals. And they won't die out because there are people who never will. But not spaying or neutering them is almost like hurting the animal sometimes. When I lived in a trailer park, the lady who lived across the street had like, 20 cats. Because she never spayed and neutered them. Almost every year she would have three or four new litters of kittens. You know what was one of the most common sites in the trailer park? Roadkill cats. And that's very traumatizing for a five-year-old.

Pets: Nothing really separates 'pets' from 'meat' animals, to me. 'Pets' are, in general, smaller, and cuddlier, or attractive looking. But that doesn't make them different. While I could never eat a horse, or a dog, or a cat, if other people want to, that's fine. As long as someone doesn't have a sentimental attachment to that animal. In other countries they will eat dogs or horses or cats. Some places eat rabbits, and guinea pigs. So there is no real difference, except maybe how the creature was bred. I'm not saying people should go around feasting on pets. I just think that if other people want to, they can.

Hunting: I'm fine with hunting for food. You know, if you want to go out in the fall and shoot bucks, bring them home and make venison stew, that's fine by me. I have a problem if you go out, shoot a buck, skin it and leave it's carcass there. Yes, another animal will eventually eat it... but its so disrespectful to the animal. I also have problems with hunters who don't obey the law. Those who ignore 'no trespassing' signs, or who shoot does. I don't take my dog out in the fall without an orange vest anymore because she's brown. And most hunters shoot at anything that moves. And several people have had a dog or horse or cow shot because of a stupid hunter. I think guns are unfair for hunting. It gives the animal no chance to fight back. If you use a bow and arrow, then you need to be closer, and it has less accuracy. And if you do manage to kill something, don't act like you're king of the world. Show some respect. This creature died so you could eat. Hunting also helps keep down populations. We don't have any large predators here anymore. So we need something to help keep the deer population low. Which, in turn, is better for the deer population its self.

Fur/Trapping: I'm against it. All of it. Unless you eat it, or use as much as you can, like native Americans. But raising animals just to be turned into fur is barbaric.

Culture/Religion: Well, I was raised Jewish, and we have a lot of kooky laws about what you can and can't eat. When you kill something, in order for it to be kosher, you need to kill it as fast as possible. You don't want the animal to suffer. You also cannot eat pork-it's unclean, as well as shellfish. These both actually have a logical explanation. Shellfish and Pork often carried diseases in them. If you undercooked it, you could get said disease. Now, this doesn't make sense to me because goat, cow, chicken, and fish also could, but who knows what those rabbis were thinking. There's also a line that roughly translates to "Thou shalt not boil a kid in it's mother's milk." That has some to mean "Don't eat meat and dairy together." I interpret this as: "You can't make cream of meat stew, or meat chowder."
Now, on to sacrifice: Is there even any religion that isn't satanic that does that? And if there is, ignore my ignorance.

I can't think of anything else to say, really.

[dakotak]

Lab testing- I hate it,its made for humans then test it on humans.
Abuse+Neglect- Sad. It should be an eye for an eye.You beat a animal you should be beaten.
General Animal Rights- Animals have every right 2 be treated as a human.They do not kill for fun,they dont rob your store and with the right love and care are better than any human friend.
Show animals- Training an animal with positive enforcement and giving them a good place 2 stay is fine but if you cant train it right or take care of it then you don't need it 2 make money for you.
Veganism/Vegetarianism- Its a personal opinion and if someone wants 2 eat veggies and fruit only thats fine with me but veggies make me sick so i don't eat them,i eat meat but there is a difference between killing for fun and killing 2 eat.
Farming- I dont like animal farms that keep animals in terrible condition and then kill them. Atleast give them a good life before they die.
Fishing etc.- Like i said before there is a difference in killing for fun and killing 2 eat and humans are greedy and we take more than we need and its sad when any animal goes extinct.
Overpopulation (Humans AND Animals)- I think humans are 2 blame. Before we had all the tall buildings and citys everything was fine.Why change a good thing?
Pets- Pets give you love and i think depending on what country you live in plays a big part on what you think is food.
Hunting- Again there is a difference in killing for fun and killing 2 eat,i love hunting deer but i don't shoot because i cant hit the head and give them a quick death and every deer we get every part is used If we dont eat it then our dogs do.Its a more healthy than buying processed meat from the store and we know that the animal was not tortured.
Trapping/Fur- NO it is horribly wrong and makes me so mad!!!!
Religion- I am a christian but i do believe that when animals die that they go 2 a Heaven. I can not accept that such amazing creatures have no souls but care so much for us.

[SapphiraCain]

On my college course, we spent a whole term on animal rights and had quite a stack on coursework to write about it and I'm still no closer to where I stand on them confidently. I've only chosen 3 to right about since I can waffle on for ages about this ^^
Lab-testing - A lot of people think that lab testing involves cosmetics but a lot of injections, medicines and antibiotics that save lives today were once tested on animals. Our advancement in medicines would be no where near where it is today without animal testing and to be honest I am slightly grateful for that. I do believe that we should cut down on animal testing and could start using volunteers but would that also be classed as abuse? Who would actually volunteer to take a drug that could possibly cause an infection or disease or even death? Research in medicines could possibly ground to a halt without animal testing.

Circus Animals - In the past few years, there has been a firm crack-down on circus animals and there's only a couple of circuses that now use animals in the UK but I firmly disagree with the use of animals for our entertainment although a few animals have not wanted to leave the circus when retirement has come due to the strong bond bewteen animal and trainer and the amount of human attention they recieve (if they have been brought up on it, they will prefer it to their own kind).

Pets - Pets are animals domesticated by us, that means we cannot release them into the wild as they will not survive. They rely on us, especially dogs. Sometimes, they can become feral again, which means stray dogs/animals can adapt to live in the neighbouring wild but that cannot be certain for all animals. Cats are somewhat still wild and would find it easier to adapt to the wild life but think of all the other pets we have that rely on us to bring them food, water, a clean habitat and stimulation. Rodents, birds, dogs, cats, reptiles, amphibians, horses. I believe pets is a bond between animals and owner and as long as their welfare rights are maintained, is something I approve of. Besides, I would be heart broken if I had to give up my Marmalade or Hercules

But these are just my opinions

[Clairina]

Mod edit: Posts like this do not belong in the HoS. Please read the rules and understand what is expected before posting in this forum.

[Rainwater]

On my college course, we spent a whole term on animal rights and had quite a stack on coursework to write about it and I'm still no closer to where I stand on them confidently. I've only chosen 3 to right about since I can waffle on for ages about this ^^
Lab-testing - A lot of people think that lab testing involves cosmetics but a lot of injections, medicines and antibiotics that save lives today were once tested on animals. Our advancement in medicines would be no where near where it is today without animal testing and to be honest I am slightly grateful for that. I do believe that we should cut down on animal testing and could start using volunteers but would that also be classed as abuse? Who would actually volunteer to take a drug that could possibly cause an infection or disease or even death? Research in medicines could possibly ground to a halt without animal testing.

Even if you had volunteers testing a drug, you would still have to test on animals to see if it could be used in the veterinary world. So many drugs that people take are used in the veterinary world, but the only way to know which ones can be used is to test them. Or, in a worst case scenario, someone's dog (or, even worse, cat) ate many pills containing "Drug X". Is "Drug X" toxic to a dog or cat? What will it do? How do you treat it? Can you treat it? Should the owner worry? Owners call veterinary clinics all the time asking if something their pets ate is dangerous or not.

Spoiler

Ten drugs off the top of my head used by humans and at least one animal species.

Amoxcillin * ♦
Doxycycline ♦
Hydroxyzine * ♦
Diphenhydramine * ♦
Itraconazole ♦
Terbinafine
Midazolam ♦
Furosemide ♦
Prednisone * ♦
Diazepam ♦

* = Drugs I can personally say I have taken.
♦ = Drugs I have personally seen used in animals.

[LucifersFallenAngel]

Animal Abuse/neglect /testing/ etc- I've acutally met someone who abused their pet. After I was done with them, they didnt have a single thing near them, not even a plant. I DESPISE!!!!!!! with a hardcore passion animal aubsers, neglectors, animal testing, and so forth.

Hunting i dont mind as long as it is for populatin control, but the hunting (well...poaching) of things like tigers and other endangered animals, I'm strongly against. I've been hunting a few times, and everytime I shot something I got depressed. I cant stand killing an animal, but I have nothing against hunting.

Fishing, once again, i dont mind but jsut dont over fish a species. Every species is vital to another, including humans. Wipe off a species and the balance will shift in ways that may be dire.


Vegitarians...I honestly dont have anythign agaisnt them, and I see their points but to me it jsut doenst seem healthy. Humans are meant to be omnivorous, and meats have nutriets we need, along with certain plants and such. I've met 1 vegitarian in my entire life and they didn't look all that healthy..but maybe it was just that 1.


I love animals. Have all my life and will continue to do so. But I'm not going to stop eating meat. I love meat.

What baffles and upsets me is that people often forget that Humans are animals. Humans are no different than anything else. Sure humans have intelligence, but so do other animals. Each one's intelligence is different though, and meant to help that species. For example, a species of monkey has the intelligence to crack open nuts with rocks. I saw a documentary testing the intelligence of a Cuttlefish and they're smart creatures.
Human intelligence helps us, well, at least it use to :/. Now people use intelligence with stupidity. People complain of other animals like deer and bear overpopulating and going into their back yards. Last I checked, the deer and bear were there first...if anyone is overpopulating, it would be humans :/

I personally think that if your going to test a drug FOR humans on an animal, test it ON a human. Othe animals like rats and dogs dont have the same... (i cant think of the word right now but you should know what I mean if you get this). I say that to people I meet and they're response is "noo thats wrong. thats inhumane.." ...And..doing the same thing to a dog or something isnt?? I am missing something?? It's not like i'm saying to pull random people or drug addicts off the street and sticking them with whatever drug needs to be tested, no. But humans who are basically wasting space, like those on death row, or in jail for life for example, have no point and are going to die anyhow, why not make them useful?

Spoiler

and if you havent figured it out by now: I hate the human species. yea, i am one, but dont remind me.

[Rainwater]

How would you change the testing procedure if you wanted to use a drug on humans and cats/dogs/horses/etc? Are you suggesting doing trials on all species at the same time instead of one first, then another and another? If changing the testing procedure could mean fewer new medications for animals, would you accept this as an acceptable loss?

Also, though I realize it might not matter to you since you say you "hate humans", what if a death row inmate was truly innocent and the testing was forced on an innocent person? If you found yourself in prison/on death row, would you accept this being done to you (especially if you were innocent)? Would you accept being infected with a disease to challenge the new drug, not knowing for sure if it would work or what the side effects could be? What about determining tetatogenicity?

I'm sorry for all the questions, but I'd like to try and understand your viewpoint better.