This is something I am very passionate about, although it is not just the Catholic religion that has barely any tolerance on gay people at all. But it is the Catholic religion that I have experience with when it comes to situations involving homosexuality and the church.
You see, my best friend was a boy named Jake. He had been my best friend since a very young age, and he was my best friend right up until he was taken from us. Because I was raised by my non-religious mother, she has never pressed any beliefs on me, and I have been allowed to make my decisions entirely for myself on what is acceptable and what is not. My Catholic grandfather however threatened to disown me on multiple occasions if I didn't stop regarding Jake as a friend of mine, once it was discovered he was gay.
Jake's father was also Catholic, and was imprisoned after seriously attacking Jake when he found out his son was gay. We were all abhorred by his attack, and I even gave evidence against him, despite my own Grandfather telling me that what had been done was right.
Jake took his own life after years of physical, verbal and mental abuse from the Catholic side of his family and from people around him, and I have always resented them for treating him so badly.
I think that a lot of people, Catholic or not don't consider the effects that they have on an individual when they attack them for being who they are. No, being gay is not a choice, just as much as being Heterosexual is not a choice.
But I would like to say that there are Catholics out there that do stand for gay rights, I have met several of them and they are also disgusted at how people who claim to be "all-accepting and loving", as their bible has told them to be, can be so malicious. So don't give up hope, because not all people are closed-minded.
It's just unfortunate that not all people can keep their opinions to themselves when it doesn't concern them. This is what irritates me, particularly with people who use religion as their reason for spreading hate. If they don't like homosexuality, don't get involved in it. We're not forcing them to get into bed with someone of their same gender, we just want those who do choose to do so to be given the equal right to do so. We (brothers and sisters of the LGBT support) don't like having to listen to people slandering other human beings for who they fell in love with either.
The one argument that irritates me to no-end is "it was Adam and Eve! Not Adam and Steve!"
First off, Adam and Eve had two sons. No daughters. So how was procreation continued anyway?
Secondly, this was supposedly at a time when procreation was necessary. Now, we have more people than our world can support, so pro-creation is no longer a true necessity. Of course it is at a rate we can support, but not the way it has been. Perhaps Homosexuality is a way of slowing down the pro-creation? Would you rather see two men holding hands, or a child starving to death because there is too little food?
And my final little dig would be at "Gay marriage ruins the sanctity of marriage" - Far too many Catholics (and others) to count.
Marriage pre-dates Christianity. It is not a Christian tradition only. Please do not treat it as so, or you will be submitted to a history lesson from myself. :3
Catholic religion on gayness.
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Re: Catholic religion on gayness.
Please don't attack me 'cause of that, but I believe that homosexuality is illness. If you can choose will you like same sex or other one, you are not gay, you're bisexual.
God doesn't hate people who are sick, God hates illness that obsesses them. God loves all the people with love that you can't even imagine. He gave us this life to live, He gave us common sense, our body, our mind...At least I believe so ^-^
In my country there are few priest that marry gay people and people who aren't same religion. They say that God is love and that he encourages spreading it. All (religious) people should believe so too. Bible doesn't learn anything bad - it teaches you to spread love and love your neighbor, to respect everything, to be nice. Even if you don't believe in existence of God, it's nice to live by God's laws. I think It's only important to aspire towards something better, like love.
God doesn't hate people who are sick, God hates illness that obsesses them. God loves all the people with love that you can't even imagine. He gave us this life to live, He gave us common sense, our body, our mind...At least I believe so ^-^
In my country there are few priest that marry gay people and people who aren't same religion. They say that God is love and that he encourages spreading it. All (religious) people should believe so too. Bible doesn't learn anything bad - it teaches you to spread love and love your neighbor, to respect everything, to be nice. Even if you don't believe in existence of God, it's nice to live by God's laws. I think It's only important to aspire towards something better, like love.
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Re: Catholic religion on homosexuality
I'm not attacking you, I'd just like to discuss this. I think you might be misinformed about your second sentence. Bisexual people don't choose to be bisexual, nor do they love every single person on Earth. They love people regardless of their gender. They don't pick and choose like they pick and choose what clothes to wear. A person who is bi doesn't wake up one morning and say "Today, I will crush on exclusively women".Skydiver wrote:Please don't attack me 'cause of that, but I believe that homosexuality is illness. If you can choose will you like same sex or other one, you are not gay, you're bisexual.
Why do you feel that homosexuality is an illness? If it is an illness, which the APA (American Psychological Association) ruled not an illness in 1975, then can it be cured? I don't believe that I have an illness. And I can't be "cured" from my homosexuality.
Last edited by crazyflight on July 9th, 2013, 10:12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Catholic religion on gayness.
Just reiterating what Crazyflight said. As a bisexual, I'm attracted to a person despite their gender, not because of it. I do not choose who attracts me. I have (had -- married) a type and it truly wasn't any different than how a heterosexual picks a person to be with.Skydiver wrote:Please don't attack me 'cause of that, but I believe that homosexuality is illness. If you can choose will you like same sex or other one, you are not gay, you're bisexual.
Homosexuality used to be in the DSM (diagnostic and statistical manual) but, again, it was removed. So according to the American Psychiatric Association, homosexuals are not mentally ill and therefore not sick.
Could you clarify this for me? Would that mean a person with a chronic illness that effects their entire lives is obsessed with the illness? Or is this a case of hate the "illness" but not the person?Skydiver wrote:God doesn't hate people who are sick, God hates illness that obsesses them. God loves all the people with love that you can't even imagine. He gave us this life to live, He gave us common sense, our body, our mind...At least I believe so ^-^
If the religion is about spreading love (and yes, I have read the Bible), then shouldn't you (general you) encourage even homosexual individuals to find love? Do you believe people not of the heterosexual persuasion are less able to love another human being? I only ask because of your wording choice.Skydiver wrote:In my country there are few priest that marry gay people and people who aren't same religion. They say that God is love and that he encourages spreading it. All (religious) people should believe so too. Bible doesn't learn anything bad - it teaches you to spread love and love your neighbor, to respect everything, to be nice. Even if you don't believe in existence of God, it's nice to live by God's laws. I think It's only important to aspire towards something better, like love.
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Re: Catholic religion on gayness.
I'm going to be simple:
Everyone should have the access for the same rules and possibilities
Meaning that if a person is gay, then s/he is and can be that freely. If a person is heterosexual, then s/he can be that without any wall in between
Black/White or any kind of people? It's all the same. We're all humans and we're all capable on doing the same things so shouldn't we be able to be alloved to? Any religion isn't worth more than the other. Any marriage is worth as much as any of the other ones
Everyone would get paid for the things they do; so for example, a lazy person gets less than the other one that is energoc and does more, but each day their payment would start from the same line so they would be equal :3
We should all try to go for an equal world where no-one feels bad or sad or has troubles~
.......... I went a bit off-topic didn't I..?
Everyone should have the access for the same rules and possibilities
Meaning that if a person is gay, then s/he is and can be that freely. If a person is heterosexual, then s/he can be that without any wall in between
Black/White or any kind of people? It's all the same. We're all humans and we're all capable on doing the same things so shouldn't we be able to be alloved to? Any religion isn't worth more than the other. Any marriage is worth as much as any of the other ones
Everyone would get paid for the things they do; so for example, a lazy person gets less than the other one that is energoc and does more, but each day their payment would start from the same line so they would be equal :3
We should all try to go for an equal world where no-one feels bad or sad or has troubles~
.......... I went a bit off-topic didn't I..?
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Re: Catholic religion on gayness.
Alrighty, let me see if I can answer this with my limited knowledge.aqua1 wrote:((I didn't know if this should be in the gay rights topic or not, sorry if it should be))
So, today I had a conversation (argument) with a guy. He was saying that being gay is an abomination, and I kept telling him that he was wrong, and that it was perfectly fine to like the same gender that you are. (not that I am gay, it's just that I don't have anything against them). I don't know how I got in the conversation with him, but that's not the point. He said that god told him from the bible that gayness is an abomination, and he's catholic. I don't have a religion, so I'm not quite sure, but I thought that the god was supposed to love everybody for who they are, no matter what, as long as they were good people. . I would like to see if, in fact, this is true; that in the catholic religion homosexuality is an abomination, and would like to hear what people think about this.
OK, so first off, I'm not Catholic- I'm a Christian. But, we have the same Bible, I think/guess, and I shall try to explain things a little. In the Bible, it says you must not have sexual intercourse with that of the same gender. That's wrong.
But
If you're gay/lesbian/ whatever, and you never have sex with someone of the same gender, you should be Ok. I think. I don't know, I'm not God, sorry.
And of COURSE God loves homosexuals, he just hates what they are doing.
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Re: Catholic religion on gayness.
Like you said you are not G-d so how can state that last sentence at all? It is perfectly fine to say "I believe such and such because but to say that G-d loves this or hates that is nonsense. We think we know by interpreting Scripture but even that is up to...interpretation.TheVioletDragon wrote: OK, so first off, I'm not Catholic- I'm a Christian. But, we have the same Bible, I think/guess, and I shall try to explain things a little. In the Bible, it says you must not have sexual intercourse with that of the same gender. That's wrong.
But
If you're gay/lesbian/ whatever, and you never have sex with someone of the same gender, you should be Ok. I think. I don't know, I'm not God, sorry.
And of COURSE God loves homosexuals, he just hates what they are doing.
For instance some feel that just having an attraction to the same sex is a sin whilst others feel it is only in the act of love-making and maybe even only a specific form of love-making. Strangely enough there is nothing to be found about lesbians in any Scripture, only about "two men lying with one another as a man would do with a woman".
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Re: Catholic religion on gayness.
Question- why do you put a dash in God?BradTheMad wrote:
Like you said you are not G-d so how can state that last sentence at all? It is perfectly fine to say "I believe such and such because but to say that G-d loves this or hates that is nonsense. We think we know by interpreting Scripture but even that is up to...interpretation.
For instance some feel that just having an attraction to the same sex is a sin whilst others feel it is only in the act of love-making and maybe even only a specific form of love-making. Strangely enough there is nothing to be found about lesbians in any Scripture, only about "two men lying with one another as a man would do with a woman".
And I can state the last sentence because it states, very clearly, in the Bible that God loves all creatures great and small- and that includes humans- and hates sin. He hates sin because sin takes us away from Him, which is not what he wants at all. And I don't believe that the Bible is open to interpretation. What the Bible says goes, and I believe it like some other people would believe a scientific text, to put it into perspective.
"Get your hands off me! You're crushing my individuality!"- Huan, Legend of Korra
"You want breakfast in bed? Sleep in the kitchen." -Jack Bartlett, Heartland.
"Ask not the sparrow how the eagle flies. I will not allow anyone to beat me at my own ambition. My will is absolute!" Satsuki Kiruuin, KILL la KILL
"You want breakfast in bed? Sleep in the kitchen." -Jack Bartlett, Heartland.
"Ask not the sparrow how the eagle flies. I will not allow anyone to beat me at my own ambition. My will is absolute!" Satsuki Kiruuin, KILL la KILL
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Re: Catholic religion on gayness.
So... Have you ever eaten pork? Or worn wool-linen mixtures? Those are other prohibitions featured in the Book of Leviticus (and I think Deuteronomy as well). The way people focus on Leviticus 18:22 and not the rest of it is absolutely absurd, because there's so much more that people don't follow, yet one statement about a minority makes people go crazy. If that makes sense. I hope I'm not being too aggressive, and please correct me if I'm wrong on anything.TheVioletDragon wrote: And I don't believe that the Bible is open to interpretation. What the Bible says goes, and I believe it like some other people would believe a scientific text, to put it into perspective.
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Re: Catholic religion on gayness.
I'm Jewish and to us it is "offensive" to write one of His full names if there is a change of deleting it.TheVioletDragon wrote:
Question- why do you put a dash in G-d?
IMO the Scriptures are open to interpretation as that is what my religion revolves around.
Your last post however explains perfectly why you believe it to be this way. It's just that simply stating, "And of COURSE G-d loves homosexuals, he just hates what they are doing" can be very offensive to some people on here who might be homosexual. It might make them feel unwanted and MS is open to everyone. The word hate is IMO too strong a word to use, a human emotion that is ugly and not suited to G-d.
Explaining why you think or feel something is a certain way makes you seem like a much nicer person than putting it forth as absolute fact. [mod-hat off]
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